Padded Double Stitch

Thanks Robin, Judy, & Judith .
Okay, so its back to the tech table for me, with Lock chain & rings ;-))

Robin, I'm uncertain about the difficulty in making unflipped sts with pds ... lets see.

Oh, that reminds me ...
In Craftree, Kersti has already listed, under Tatting Techniques, "**Padded Double Stitch**". So, the "self-" is out, as suggested by Judith.

Hello Alll

Here are a few trials on the padding -- to supplement muskaan's experiments.
While muskaan was trying to get good effect padding the stitch, I was trying to do the padding as Karen demonstrated the "BDS".

Which means the extra looping is done within the legs of the stitch after the transfer of the stitch. I do not know what is the formal terminology for the "leg" of the stitch.. it is not the "cap"..

Judith/Judy apologies for not being aware of the terms..

My trials were focused to check

1.how much does the stitch balance,
2. How does a chord with victorian sets looks like
3. How does the stitch look for a DYK join (since this kind of join shows up like any ds on the chain)
4. What textures of the thread give a better effect.

I will post the photographs of the trials for 1/2/3

Best Regards
Usha

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Wow, Usha, those are lovely. I especially like the rose.

I really like your experiments, Usha, especially the rose.

Victorian sets are formed using alternating sets of half-stitches along a core thread: it produces a cord-like chain. You can form picots between the sets. Long picots make the cord appear like crochet.

You'll find that you can make the DYJ without a picot, too. You need to fit it between double stitches of the previous row/round, as in a coil/Catherine wheel. If the join is eased in without stretching the thread between the double stitches, everything fits very neatly.

muskaan said:

Thanks Robin, Judy, & Judith .
Oh, that reminds me ...
In Craftree, Kersti has already listed, under Tatting Techniques, "**Padded Double Stitch**". So, the "self-" is out, as suggested by Judith.

You're welcome, Muskaan. I appreciated the Mexican wave.
I have checked on Craftree, and found that Kersti has listed 'padded tatting' rather than the above. Padded tatting is a concept which would embrace a number of effects:
* using multiple core threads or a cord, as in pearl tatting (aka parallel and Maltese tatting);
* the use of wool, in needle tatting;
* using threads of two different thicknesses, the thicker one as the core;
* Rhoda Auld's and our recent padded (wrapped) double stitch --> padded chain and padded ring.

There are probably others, depending on the experimentation of various tatters.

Good Morning Jane, Judith

The rose is an attempt to make the Golden Wattle (??) It is a spring flower I guess.. The photograph does not show out the colors well. They bloom in bunches and spread the color all over the area under the tree when they wither away. The flower is in dark yellow and brownish colors.

That is made just with long chains wrapped around the central Concentric rings.

Judith,

While I tried a single wrap padding.. I was thinking how to achieve padding while DYJ is being formed. In the rose, I made a picot within the wrapped stitch in the previous round, and when I made a DYJ , I did the padding by looping the second part of the join. Not sure if this is the way to do.

Also.. Muskaan was up to SplitRings.. Now if we need to achieve padding in the reverse stitch, it sounded a bit complex to me.. did not try it though.

Victorian sets were easy to achieve, not much of a variation here apart from the bulk due to padding.

In the first of the photographs above, I tried an "all chain" structure. The chains are made in padded stitches gain.. I wanted to leave the folds in the chain without a join to the central ring and check with the stitches alone balance the whole structure. The thread was a little coarse and hence the single wrap itself made the stitch a little bulky. So when the chains where folded in 'U' shapes.. the tension in the previous legs + the bulk in the stitches helped the structure to remain stiff and did not require a join. This kind of balancing may not be possible with a thinner/pearl (#8) thread I thought.

I will check how the reverse stitch padding can be achieved.

Best Regards
Usha

Hello All

I tried the padding with the reverse stitch. I added the loop in the leg similar to the normal stitch on the SplitRing.

Here is the picture of how the loop is added. This might have been self-explanatory, there could be a member wishing to get the complete notes from this thread alone.. hence the picture. I will be happy to be corrected if my working has been incorrect.

Judith/Judy, could you pls suggest your corrections on the way the I described padding within DYJ?

Best Regards
Usha

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I'm not so up on DYJ so I'll leave that to Judith.

Hello ladies :-))

I am embarrassed to put these up after Usha’s marvelous pieces. So please bear with the visual eye-sores, all in the cause of learning & knowledge … And I must thank the tatting gods who kept my sewing at bay till just the right day [machine finally fixed yesterday ;-)] so that I could complete this learning process.

The ‘graded’ onion rings/concentric circles were very quick to make pic [#1]. But after that, I made silly mistakes or did not like the look of the subsequent tatting pics [#2,3,4], hence did a lot of snipping & retatting, trying out new ‘designs’ or elements. Finally, abandoned this for now. So 7[SUP]th[/SUP] May finally had only concentric rings to show for my time. Done in size 40 thread.
Each ring is graded : starting with ds upto 4 or 5 wraps. This subtle gradation is visible as one goes to the top of the rings.

{*I may have reached the image size limit, hence will add the rest of the trial in next message}*

My Overall Observations based on this & the subsequent trial :

_Picot _:
Need to be careful while making picots in pds. If the wraps are not snug enough, then the picot loop (or cap thread as the arrow shows in pic#2) can pull away further than desired.

When a ring or chain uses different wrap-counts (as in a graded transition), then equidistant picots might not occur with a standard count of stitches, as we normally do. Eg. after every 3 sts. In pds, both the length & the width of a stitch is dependent on the number of wraps. This may be even more prominent in size 20 threads as compared to thinner threads.

Wrapping :
In normal pds, much easier to wrap on upper thread (as Judith had pointed out).

In reverse st or 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] half of SR, easier to wrap on core thread which is taut.

However, the ultimate result is the same. Hence it is up to one’s own comfort & ease to choose which way to wrap. I have ended up wrapping sometimes on one, sometimes on the other whichever felt comfortable at the time….

Thread Size :
In size 20 thread : upto 3 wraps is easy ; beyond that thread can become unruly & twisty while ‘closing’ the stitch. But can be done, with lot of care & attention.
In size 40 thread : upto 4 wraps is also easy. Snugging 5 wraps becomes cumbersome.

I wonder what visual impact pds will have when used in thread sizes thicker than 20 ?!

Unknotting / Unwrapping :
I had stated earlier that unknotting a pds is difficult. I must qualify here. It is not difficult per se, becoz the fact is that increased wraps make the stitch hard to snug tightly. Hence one can easily pull open the cap to unravel. It is After that, that Each wrap has to be ‘unrolled’. So if I had done 5 wraps, I will have to take the shuttle back through the loop 5 times for each half stitch.

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May 8[SUP]th[/SUP], I tried this 2-round wreath in the evening. It is a very tiny piece done in size 20.
I’ve used Split Rings for round 1. pic [#5]
Round 2 is free-form pic [#6] :
Vine is Folded Chain as well as Josephine Chain, made of variable stitches -- ds to pds (3) in the chain along with cut & ties picots.
Leaves are Folded Rings also with variable sts – ds to pds(3) including a few variable pds (1,2), (2,3), (3,2), etc. and 1 small picot at the tip.

{ I will share the pattern(s) in my blog later, for anyone who is interested }

Judy, although I did not specifically try a Lock Chain, I did use the reverse pds in SRs. It is for you to tell me how it as come out :-)

Judith, thank you so very much for giving us this opportunity. Can we expect another set of stitches/techniques in the near future ?
Sorry about the mistake {padded tatting in Craftree} - another eye-opener, though. And if I may add, altho' Craftree does not have a hand embroidery category - couching & similar "padded" or "couched" stitches.

Thoroughly enjoyed this learning process (although I still have to try Usha's DYJ, etc.). Aside from the padded stitches, there were many other "firsts" for me here, including a double picot, pearl tatting, etc. Loving it :-)

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Muskaan, Judith, Judy Good morning

I beg to differ from Muskaan only on the 'picot' making.within the padded stitch. It was like any normal picot on the ds.. May be, because I used the padding at a different section of the stitch, this was easy.

Reverse stitch padding... In the way I used the padding, to me it is still complex... Now I need to switch to Ruth Perry's video again... atleast to get a control on the reverse stitch.

Muskaan .. your wreath is unique.. may be a lighter shades of brown and green would bring out the hidden beauty

With so much of contribution, this has been a good learning.. .Thanks to Muskaan.. for nailing down all the details..

Learning summary :

2 different techniques of padding a double stitch
Visual effects of repeated wrapping
A standard notation for the padded stitch with the repeated wraps,
A few experiments using simple chains, rings, victorian sets, ,DYJ, Splitring -- all using padded stitches
Problems experienced!

Best Regards
Usha

And.. many thanks to Judith for creating this thread to provide a learning opportunity.
Yes, may be another technique description from Judith... we follow with our experiments :)

Thanks Usha :-)

I would like to add a couple more points :

This is an obvious point, yet I'd like to spell it out for someone starting out : The quantity of thread required to make pds is more than a normal ds. And this increases in direct proportion to the increase in wraps in each stitch.

Secondly, I viewed Karen's video #54 on BDS. Having now seen/read many tutorials (Ruth's BDS, Jane Eborall's DDS, Karen's BDS, & what Judith has shared here about Rhoda's method) And tried them all out myself, I can safely conclude that no matter where or how you wrap the padding, when the stitch is flipped & slided to the end, it all ends in Exactly the same way !
To be more precise, one can wrap around (over or under, depending on which half stitch is being worked) the
1. core thread (as Jane does)
2. working 'cap'/upper thread of stitch loop (as suggested by Rhoda probably)
3. 'leg' loop of stitch (as Karen does)
and it will make no difference to the end result !
I have some to the conclusion that one should follow whichever wrap one finds comfortable. In fact, I have used 1 & 2 variably in the Same stitch in either half in the Wreath. I watched Karen's video only a few hours back & test tatted it. Again, I could use any of the 3 wrapping styles interchangeably.

But I have found it easier to wrap around the taut core thread while doing the 2nd half of Split Ring.

That's extremely valuable information. So it should be easier to move to ONE name, if the results are identical. Who was it that kept posting.."The knot doesn't care how it is made"….?

"The knot doesn't care how it is made"
Whoever said that Judy, is a truly wise tatter :-)) And yes, it Absolutely applies in this case.
It is very simple :
If you make a mistake in the wrap, it will do only 1 of 2 things : either unwrap immediately so that you have no padding (it is easily visible) OR it will create a knotty situation (pun intended) when you try to snug it close. So in either case, one will realise one's mistake & can rectify it.

All the wraps will look like the 4th pic & posted previously (except for the upper loop which will depend on which half stitch is being made). It is Basically like Roll Tatting (yup, I checked that out again in order to compare & contrast with pds) BUT done Within a double stitch instead of only the core thread.

I added this pic again.
After flipping the half stitch, whichever it is, the wraps will coil around the core thread in the way seen in the photo.

With Judith's permission & all the inputs provided so far, I hope to write a blog post about this stitch - this time as a basic overview & consolidated understanding, rather than only experimentation & findings.

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Good Morning Muskaan, Judy..

I recall PattyD saying this very often ."The knot doesn't care how it is made"...
To me, this statement means a lot....No constraints imposed.. .creativity unfolds..
I will try out making the padding within and the variations.. may be using pearl thread so that the visual effects are clear

Best Regards
Usha

That quotable quote has been around for some time, and it is true in most cases. (As a Uni lecturer once told us, 'There are always exceptions.') You will meet with purists in your experience, so be warned.

I've been busy for the past few days, and have enjoyed reading the further experimentation you ladies are trying. S-o-o interesting.

Hello, Usha.
* Is it necessary to pad the DYJ? It may become too bulky. Perhaps wrapping only one half-stitch may work? It may become difficult to try wrapping every element of tatting. You could risk changing the integrity of the element itself.
* The reverse stitch in split rings is direct tatting, i.e. there is no transfer of loops. You may have to try KC's method there.
* Pardon my smiling, but why would you want to pad Victorian sets? (I'm open to suggestions.) Perhaps a coarser thread would do the trick.

Dear Judith, Good Morning..

Thank you once again for the post.
Padding a DYJ may not be necessary.. In size 20 and coarse thread it really makes the stitch bulky.. The only reason I wanted to pad the DYJ is for the uniformity along the chain of padded stitches..Since DJY forms essentially a ds, I thought it should be possible to pad even that.

For the reverse stitch, I tried KC's way.. it does work.. however, does not give a good control of the stitches to pad , the stitch invariably becomes a picot.. In the reverse stitch it is hard to make multiple wraps for bulkier padding.. This has been my experience.. however, it may not be impossible.

padding victorian sets.... Judith.. an ignorant question.. won't padding the Victorian sets make the cord stronger?

My Best Regards
Usha

I have two different mental pictures for this. Are you adding wraps to the half-stitches, or using a thicker core thread? Or both?

Muskaan,

Your photographs are so clear. In your post #63 the self-padded double stitches resemble the strings of knotting which are illustrated in Rhoda Auld's book. There were various knots used in the C18th, some having distinctive names, e.g. sugar plum. Some shapes depended on whether the shuttle was in front of or behind the wraps before the loop was closed, much like tatters 'posting' their shuttles through rings today.

Thanks, Judith :-))

Sugar Plum, hmmmm Yummm. Conjures up such exciting images that tickle multiple senses !

This particular photograph is the 2nd half stitch with 4 wraps, after flipping but before snugging/
closing' the stitch.
In the 1st half stitch (pic not taken), the wrap is in the other direction. It has to be so otherwise there will be no padding - the 'wrap' will simply 'unwrap' as you make it .

Okay, this is something I must try because I cannot visualize how one can change the position of the shuttle before closing the "**loop**" - as I mentioned earlier, if shuttle is moved in the opposite direction, the wrap will simply unwrap. And for posting the shuttle, it Has to be in opposite direction to the stitch. Will check this out -- a spark has been lit in the grey cells :-))

I recently posted the shuttle through tiny rings, & found, to my pleasant surprise, that the rings kind of 'stood up' creating a slight 3D effect. That is another project I am eager to share ...

Dear Judith,

Good Morning..

Adding wraps to the half stitches.. my core thread and the ball thread are of same size in this case. Am I missing something or being.. really ignorant here?

Best Regards
Usha

Not at all, Usha.

It's just that my visualisation runs away with me sometimes. [Padding can be effected in various ways.] I understand what you are doing, and doing it so well.

I enjoy reading about the ways you trial stitches, in this case..wraps and padding. Keep on with it.