Dora Young knot

gotcha. can you point me to info about the other joins you mention? I have never even heard of some of them.

Krystaldawne:
I've had good luck findng most of them using search engines, but there's some dead sites out there, too: one I couldn't find -- I think I mention it in another post.
Good luck!

Krystledawne said:

Now we need definitions and instructions for all of these I think. :-)

I would agree with that. I think I can piece together the Dora Young join from what was posted here, it sounds like you just make a split chain knot through the picot, but I can't find anything online about the Anne Dyer join or the slope and roll join.

Krystledawne,
If you can find a copy of Anne Dyer's book, 'To boldly go where no shuttle has gone before', you will find Anne's join to the smooth side on page 27 (I think). It is good for onion rings which are made using two true rings, when you still need the shuttle thread free to run. There will probably be other applications as well.

I have my bags almost packed for the International Old Lacers Inc. (IOLI) Convention in LA at the end of this month, so shall be taking time away until mid-August. I would like to thank the tatters who have shared on this thread, and, judging by the hundreds of hits, those who have read and been challenged, too. You may not have agreed with what has been written, but we're all adult enough to live with that.

We need to acknowledge Dora Young's contribution to the world of tatting. Her techniques are being applied every day - knotless method ring and chain, Dora Young knot (also dubbed by me 'Dora Young join' to avoid the existing confusion). You will come across these under the following contemporary terms: mock split ring, split chain, bridging, Catherine Wheel join (with both shuttle threads), lark's head picot join, and any others I may have missed. In an era of 'who owns what', it is nice to see Dora's original terminology used from time to time by those 'in the know'.
Judith.

I could download both catherine wheel & slope join pdfs today( 30th jan ,2013 ) also . You can try once again.

Am getting confused with different joins . Is it possible to publish all the joins ( with diagrams ) in one 'go' ? thanks for the help.

I would be glad to see them, too!

amrutha,
Most of the joins mentioned above are in 'An Illustrated Dictionary of Tatting' published by Lacis Publications, USA. They all can be made with one shuttle, though a couple would be neater if two shuttles were used.

Hi karen,
thanks for the info abt these 3 joins. & your illustrations are very helpful. could download the tecniques' pdf from DS9 designs' site.

Okay, so, info for the other three types of joins are in the Illustrated Dictionary...

Grace,
The picot join (upward and downward), the shuttle/lock join, and the Dora Young join (used for Catherine wheels) are illustrated there. I have clear ones of the onion ring join (two variations) and the slope & roll join among my notes. I'll try to post these here for you; otherwise, I'll mail them.

Whenever you find good illustrations of any techniques, it would be to your advantage to copy and paste them into your Illustrated Dictionary for future reference. That way it becomes something personal, dynamic and progressive. Nothing is an end in itself, not even on the internet. ;-)

Judith, you are right! Nothing is stable on the internet. I do try to download or print off whatever patterns or techniques I really want to refer to.

I have printed off the page from DS9 Designs, so I have learned about the slope & roll join. In fact, I'm using it in my Endless Hearts edging. (Not misusing it, I hope! ) And I also use the Catherine Wheel Join aka Split Chain stitch. But I think I have more to understand about the Dora Young join. And I have no clue about the onion ring join!

Hello, Grace.
There is nothing rigid about where and when you use any particular join. As you learn more about tatting, you will find that a certain join would be ideal in a section you are working. So use it. Some joins are constrained by space, others by appearance, others having to seal the tension in one thread, or quite the reverse - not sealing the tension.

Re the last: picot joins allow the shuttle thread to slide, and so does one version of the Catherine wheel join (which can also be applied to onion rings). This particular CWJ will be made with the auxiliary/#2 thread as it encapsulates the main/#1 thread. In both instances, you can adjust (as opposed to seal off) the tension of the main thread in your work. With the CWJ it is a good idea to reduce the movement through the particular join space to avoid stretching the completed work. This is where the Dora Young join works beautifully, as it forms both halves together. The 'split chain stitch' (though this name is new to me) could possibly have two passes through the joining space, and so result in a little extra stretching.

Nevertheless, it's 'horses for courses', and the choice is yours! That's the wonderful appeal of tatting in the C21. We're spoilt for choice.

Thanks, Judith!

So far I have only done the CWJ/Dora Young Join with the auxiliary thread, while the core thread goes on through. I'll try it with the core thread, and see what that's like.

I've just reread this thread, and I realise that the "onion ring join" is just the lock join, slope & roll join or CWJ applied in the onion ring situation. Okay.

I looked again at your post #16. The only join I still have no clue about is Anne Dyer's join to the smooth side.

I'm curious about it; I'm still looking for a more elegant solution to a join that I have in my Endless Hearts edging. I need a downward join that also has a loop on the top side of the tatting that can later be joined to. Of the things I've tried, slope & roll works best, but it breaks up the line of caps on the top of the chain. (I also have the converse situation — an upward join that also has a downward loop on the underside for a later join. I'm using a regular picot join for this, with a paperclip on the underside.)

Apologies for inventing a new name, "split chain stitch"! I now know it's the Dora Young join.

Hi, Grace.
You're doing very well. Yes, you can apply any join that suits onion rings, though many tatters try to use one that preserves the lark's head appearance and disguises the join. Making it between two double stitches, rather than into a picot (however small), will keep the two rounds/rows even closer together.

If you want a picot above your join for later in the pattern, try linking with the main/No.1 shuttle. As you continue to the following double stitch, the No. 2/auxiliary thread will automatically form a loop over the top of the join. Enlarge the loop to form your picot for later on. Of course, you will have to adjust your tension before making the join with shuttle No. 1 as the tension will be locked.

I have a sketch of Anne Dyer's join which I can post for you. Stay tuned. ;-)

Thanks, Judith! The lock join recommends itself as being simple and understandable, and that's worth a lot. I don't like that it locks the core thread, but many tatters could live with that. I was also thinking of going the other way and making it harder by using a CWJ, putting a paperclip on the top loop before I snug up the second half of the ds. That would look better than what I have with the slope & roll.

I look forward to learning about the Anne Dyer join!

In 1993 Anne Dyer (UK) illustrated 'joining to the smooth side' (below the ds) in her book, 'To Go Boldly Where No Shuttle Has Gone Before'. Anne made the first half of a double stitch loosely, and then pulled it from back to front through a picot below it. She adjusted this loop against the previous ds before passing the shuttle from back to front through the extended loop. The join is eased into place while keeping the shuttle thread taut. Anne followed all this with the second half of the double stitch. This join results in a double stitch with three apparent hitches/'legs'.

You may want to try it when tatting a chain and joining to a picot below your work. [NOTE: This illustration is mine, not Anne's. If any tatter chooses to use it, please leave my initials in place as it is copyright.]

Wow, thanks, Judith! It looks really useful for my design problem with the Endless Hearts! I will certainly try this out.

Hi BlueDode

You need to add an 'f' the the end of the ady so it reads spdf...........I had the same problem. Thank you ladies who have contributed to this discussion as I have learnt alot.

Grace, and others reading,
Your tatting is yours! So what you do and how you make links are entirely your choice. Tatters in the C21 only have these joins to try because someone before them experimented with a shuttle and thread. The emphasis in contemporary tatting is on the final appearance, i.e. the lark's heads on the 'front side'. Nevertheless, there are tatters who use the older, traditional method (like myself at times).
Enjoy your tatting. That's paramount.

So the link in Post #16 is: http://www.ds9designs.com/patterns_free/CatherineWheelJoin.pdf

Yes, that's the one. I just checked it and it took me there. Just needed to add an 'f' to the original link. I copy and pasted it the the browser line and added the f

Thanks for that, Helen. It didn't appear on the information I was given, but somehow I got through to the site.